these are the moments where i think the romney team has trouble, once you can actually drill down and say, but how does it work? show me the numbers. there is no answer. >> right. paul ryan thinks he can use this kind of policy wonk construction that he's been able to create to evade policy discussions. he told brit hume earlier i don't want to get too wonky on you when he asked him when is this budget going to balance. he did the same thing here, where he says look, you know, the math is just too complicated, just trust me on this. you can lower taxes by 20% and it's free. the problem is, nobody believes that. and you can't say well i'm really smart and know the numbers and there's cbo baselines and hope people change the channel. maybe what they should have said is i'm going to cut taxes by 20% and the economy will go through the roof. they didn't say that. they said i'm going to cut taxes by 20% and find other revenue. where will you find the other revenue? not saying. >> there is not enough time, eric, not really is a discussion -- that's not a good rejoineder. i'm no debate pro,